Alabama?

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Alabama?

Postby SF2K4 » Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:15 am

I've seen a good number of people on here are from Alabama and I also saw 'Bama listed as an Unfriendly state. However, I've looked through all the laws I could find and after reading it all I find myself still in the dark...

1. What's the exact clause that says owning a flyer in Alabama is illegal? Heck, I couldn't even find anything about owning anything any more recent than 1997...

2. If you are allowed to if you have some sort of rehab or other license... how can I find out if that's the case? And if so, is that worth it and where would I do that?

Thanks for the help guys!
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Postby Lora » Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:47 pm

I was researching this very topic the other day & couldn't find what I needed online so I called them. It is illegal to own any wild animal including all squirrels in the state of Alabama. However I seriously doubt they put alot of time & energy into searching out illegal pets. I would suggest you keep a low profile & tell anyone who asks that it's a sugar glider (assuming they're legal in Alabama... ???). Luckily they sleep pretty much all day so not much chance of someone seeing him during these hours. Keep a sheet handy to toss over the cage should you need to. The down side to being in an illegal state is that you can't brag to everyone about your wonderful little furball & ER vet care is difficult if not impossible to find. Luckily these lil guys have amazing healing abilities as you've seen first hand.

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Postby SF2K4 » Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:55 pm

Are they legal to own with some sort of license?
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Postby Helen » Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:43 pm

I thought I saw an breeder in Alabama when I first started to read about flyers, I might be wrong, please someone check me if I am, But maybe try to get a breeder permit or something. That might make it legal to own one.
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Postby SF2K4 » Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:01 pm

I looked through the license and fees section and I found that being a Game Breeder costs anywhere from $250-$1300 dollars. Says "Expires September 30th"... nothing else regarding how long the license lasts...
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Postby SF2K4 » Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:10 pm

Here's what I've found... someone who understands law better than me can maybe see what the deal is.

Alabama Licenses and Fees - Link

Game Breeder :: $250-$1300 :: Allows residents to engage in the business of raising and selling game birds, game or fur bearing animals or eggs of such birds for propagation purposes. Expires September 30. Contact your local district office.

Propagation Permit :: $1 :: Permit allows person, firm, etc. owning property in state to raise game, game birds or fur bearing animals for the exclusive purpose of stocking private or protected lands under the control of the permit holder. Expires September 30. COULD THIS BE SOMETHING?
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Postby Vickie » Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:19 pm

Propagation Permit :: $1 :: Permit allows person, firm, etc. owning property in state to raise game, game birds or fur bearing animals for the exclusive purpose of stocking private or protected lands under the control of the permit holder. Expires September 30.



If this works out for you, Aaron, let me know. We have a few acres in Alabama that we'd like to stock with flying squirrels. :twisted:
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Alabama?

Postby Lora » Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:40 pm

Why don't you call a local shelter & get the name of a rehabber. Call them & see what permits might be available. Since you don't have a squirrel yet you have nothing to fear. Get several names as some may be more willing to help than others. I have tried & tried to find the link I was on the other day with the phone # I called but I can't locate it.

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Postby Joan » Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:25 pm

Gail is in Alabama and it seems she found out you needed a permit and I don't know if that was time limited. Anyway, as Lora said, most State agencies are not interested in hunting for flyer pets ... especially in the South where just about everone's granddaddy had one as a kid. If you start selling them ... that can be another story. Who you call at the state level can give conflicting advice. My thought is ... Big Brother has enough to do. Keep a frozen road kill squirrel in you freezer and if anyone every shows up at you door say, "No sir, I don't have a flyer, but I had a grey. He died and I'll get him for you." :twisted:
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Postby gwsgrand » Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:07 pm

Sorry to bring bad news but we that own flyers keep it quite except that since we helped host the first Flying Squirrel meeting here in south Ala my picture along with one of our babies got put on the front page of our local newspaper. Well every one knows me as the flying squirrel lady. Our Vet has pictures up on his wall of our babies with santa. We are not allowed to have permitts or to be a rehabber. We also can not be a breeder. The state thinks flyers are the same as gray's. I would love to get enough people together that could help get the laws changed in Alabama so we can have flyers with out being "underground". If you will pm me I will talk to you more on this problem . Also I might be able to help you get a flyer.
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Postby Suggiemom » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:02 am

Here in SC the reason most wildlife is illegal to be kept as a pet is because everyone's grandaddy had one as a pet growing up.....LOL I don't know about in LA, but here they are an animal of "concern". Their numbers are dwindling and they may be there as well. The link about providing land for fur bearers makes me think that LA might have a program to reintroduce them as well. It'd be a good place to look into being licensed.

Whoever said that "Big Brother" had enough to worry about is correct; however; I do know that here in SC that if you flaunt it they are more likely to confiscate and make an example for others. It's not wise to flaunt an illegal pet no matter whether we agree with the laws or not. It's unwise to sell someone a flyer that lives in an illegal state because you are putting the animal at risk.

I also know here our vets will confiscate. They can lose their license if they don't. They only have 24 hours to turn over wildlife to a licensed rehabber. If they get in a hawk or an owl, they can be fined a LOT of money if they don't call a federally permitted rehabber. If they have to put one down, they need our information on their documentation, etc. Most won't even treat wildlife for us and we ARE licensed because they go to vet school to make money. Most don't study wildlife to any extent because they make their living with domestics so it's rare to even be able to find a vet that COULD care for them.

I just rescued three from GA that were purchased legally in FL. The girl moved to GA and didn't know they were illegal until her dog caught one and broke it's leg. Vet after vet said "If we treat it we have to confiscate it". Same here in SC, so she did "the best she could" to fix him up and he's no longer able to jump around, but at least she cared enough to spend the time to find a licensed home where they could live out their lives. And, she checked every reference, etc. She even called our wardens which I thought was awesome of her to be so thorough!!

I can understand the love everyone has for these guys. Honestly, if I was told today that I couldn't have mine anymore, I'd be living on my brothers sofa in Ft. Myers , FL so fast his wittle head would spin!!!
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Postby aMartyrsHeart » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:41 am

Maybe we could sign a petition or something and send it to a senator or something? I mean, this law is ridiculous, and if there able to be captive bred here legally, maybe people wouldn't have to worry about the crazy rednecks going out and trapping wild ones to sell on Craig's list or sell to people at pet stores who don't have a clue. Sugar gliders are legal here. I think its a good argument.
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Postby aMartyrsHeart » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:42 am

Keep a frozen road kill squirrel in you freezer and if anyone every shows up at you door say, "No sir, I don't have a flyer, but I had a grey. He died and I'll get him for you."


HAHAHAHA :twisted:

The next road kill squirrel I see is coming home with me! LOL
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Postby Suggiemom » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:10 pm

I don't know. Whenever you deal with a govt entity, what you think is logical...well, they must learn logic 101 in a foreign language if you know what I mean.

Our USDA rep tries to force us to feed our raccoons only dog food.....ok for our NON releasable coons we might consider that. MAYBE, but for those that are releasable, why would you teach them to consume a diet that they cannot find in the forrest? The only place for em' to get their kibbles is on people's back porches and that doesn't usually work out so well for the raccoons.....

This rep is a vet, but again, not so much trained in wildlife even though she's in charge of "protecting" them....(To display we have to be USDA) she's not even ALLOWED to view our non display animals because you know how well state and federal entitites work together; yet she has an opinion on animals she knows nothing about.

If you guys want, when we have lunch with our dnr guys next week I can ask if they can give me reasons why they're illegal and how to go about changing the laws.....It won't be the exact same as LA, but I'm sure it could point you all in the right direction and because we have a VERY close working relationship to the DNR guys in our area they would be very honest with us and not give us the 'politically correct' answers.
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Postby aMartyrsHeart » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:14 pm

Sure, it would be nice to know reasons why they are illegal, then we can work on arguing our side a little more efficiently.
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Postby Joan » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:12 pm

Suggiemom wrote:...Whenever you deal with a govt entity, what you think is logical...well, they must learn logic 101 in a foreign language if you know what I mean


As someone who worked for the Federal Governement for close to 30 years, I know exactly what you mean. :roll:
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Postby Joan » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:55 pm

Suggiemom wrote: ... I don't know about in LA, but here they are an animal of "concern". Their numbers are dwindling and they may be there as well.


Is it the Southern or Northern that is dwindling? I know there are pockets of Northerns http://www.flyingsquirrels.com/Rangemap ... a_sub.html
in the South that are considered endangered, but I've never heard about Southerns dwindling anywhere. Maybe a subspecies like G. v. saturatus in S.C. http://www.flyingsquirrels.com/Rangemap ... a_sub.html
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Postby Anita Rae » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:39 am

Joan wrote:
Suggiemom wrote: ... I don't know about in LA, but here they are an animal of "concern". Their numbers are dwindling and they may be there as well.


Is it the Southern or Northern that is dwindling? I know there are pockets of Northerns http://www.flyingsquirrels.com/Rangemap ... a_sub.html
in the South that are considered endangered, but I've never heard about Southerns dwindling anywhere. Maybe a subspecies like G. v. saturatus in S.C. http://www.flyingsquirrels.com/Rangemap ... a_sub.html


Wouldn't Glaucomys volans be on this list if they were dwindling in SC?

https://www.dnr.sc.gov/pls/heritage/county_species.list?pcounty=all

But I did take a few minutes and wen't out check state statues. I just skimmed through but I didn't find anything that says you can't keep wildlife as pets, and the only reference that I see that refers to squirrels at all relates to hunting. Laurie, you might ask the DNR to tell you were that law is.

Then I found this.


While South Carolina law does not specifically prohibit the keeping of most native wild species as pets, many ethical and human health-related issues make this an unadvisable practice, according to Jay Butfiloski, Furbearer Project supervisor with the S.C. Department of Natural Resources (DNR).


which comes from this site

http://www.outdoorcentral.com/mc/pr/04/02/23a5.asp

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Postby Anita Rae » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:55 am

http://alisdb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/codeofalabama/1975/coatoc.htm


Here is a link to the Alabama Code and I don't see any rules against private ownership of unprotected wildlife. It might be there and I'm missing it. If anyone contacts the state of AL, have them direct you to where the law is written.

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Postby Joan » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:57 am

Anita Rae wrote: ... Wouldn't Glaucomys volans be on this list if they were dwindling in SC?
https://www.dnr.sc.gov/pls/heritage/county_species.list?pcounty=all

Looks like they should be if they were.

Anita Rae wrote:... Laurie, you might ask the DNR to tell you were that law is.


Excellent advice. So much of what we hear is word of mouth, but finding the copy of the law is another matter. Even State folks will say one thing, but can't back it up when asked to site the statue.
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Postby Anita Rae » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:23 am

Just spoke to Billy Dukes at the SC DNR. Flying Squirrels are legal to own in SC but it is not legal to sell them there. YAY! Charlie wants to move to SC after he retires and I have been putting my foot down...NOT unless I can take my fur kids. Double YAY!

Gonna call Alabama next.


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