MBD???

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Rhiannonn2626
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MBD???

Postby Rhiannonn2626 » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:08 pm

My flyer Pixie started acting strange this morning...she was very lethargic and had fallen to the bottom of her cage. My husband found her and called me at work. I told him to give her water and yogurt and to see if she got better.. She did... she started responding and acting much more aware. So he put her in the nestbox and let her sleep with me checking on her and offering her tidbits all day. I just got her out as she is now fully awake( I thought sleep was best for her) and I noticed that she is walking funny, but it isnt the back legs its all four feet.. she is kinda crabbing along. Doesnt seem to be in any discomfort. She has been gettin calcium and d3 but is this mbd?
PROUD HOF to Pixie!!!

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DinNorman
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Postby DinNorman » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:45 am

Be sure that she keeps consuming calories. You can use sugar water for short time, or formula if you need to drip it into the mouth. Offer foods you know she will eat. Hypoglycemia can be primary or secondary, with some other malady producing it. If she doesnt come around promptly have her checked by a veterinarian. Little creatures like flyers get into "trouble" very quickly.

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Kay
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Postby Kay » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:10 am

What happened to the reply I posted last night? :? Did it go private??

Give her some liquid calcium and treats of cut up sweet potatoes (raw) or baby food if she'll take it.

Also try a mixture of calcium, vitamins, applesauce, yogurt made into little ice cubes -- pop one out each night to see if they'll be gone in the morning.

Keep her warm so she doesn't use energy staying warm and encourage her to be still, not run around or jump. A rest from whatever she affected her is called for. I move sick and injured babies into a small cage on a heating pad. Their house fits, but not much else. I take the top off the cage to get the house in.

Read about MBD treatments. I have never had a flyer or gray with it, but I talk to others about it all the time. My friend, Kathleen uses liquid calcium (for people) and squirts it in the corner of their mouth twice a day. Calcium Glubionate is fruit flavored and I got it at the drugstore. I make the ice cubes and my resident sqrlz get it two or three times a week. They don't always eat it. The babies I raise get it in one water bottle and that's the one they finish first.

Best wishes,
kay

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Postby Wanda » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:05 pm

How is Pixie doing today??
Here are a couple of links about flyers with MBD.
http://www.nfsa.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php ... hlight=mbd

http://www.nfsa.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php ... hlight=mbd

I agree with Kay. Just follow her instructions.
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Rhiannonn2626
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Postby Rhiannonn2626 » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:20 pm

Pixie is much better this morning! She is active and alert. Still having a bit of trouble moving but not nearly as bad. I have been giving her calcivet mixed with baby food as much as she will eat. Calcivet is both calcium and d3 in one supplement. I had been mixing it with her water but apparently the little brat doesnt like the taste now. Did just fine with it before.... So i am switching to recal phosphorus free with d3 and mixing that with her favorite fruity babyfood as well as sweet potatoes rolled in it. Poor baby she doesnt understand why mommy is disturbing her sleep so... i have also moverd her into her travel cage and put that on top of my computer tower(my pc gets warm) Anything else I should be doing? How long will it tae for her to become the normal little pest she used to be? Also how much repcal should i be using?
PROUD HOF to Pixie!!!

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Postby Joan » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:35 pm

Rhiannonn2626 wrote:... How long will it tae for her to become the normal little pest she used to be?


A week.

MBD Treatment
Get some Dannon yogurt (fruit flavored is fine) or cottage cheese.

Get some broccoli since it contains both calcium and Vitamin D2 which a flyer can convert into D3.

Yogurt, cottage cheese and broccoli can be doctored with peanut butter for flavor if rejected, but most flyers will eat them both.

Get some type of rodent or mammal liquid vitamins such as LM that contains Vitamin D3.

Add three drops per ounce of water for a week or two

Then go to 1-2 drops per ounce of water.

Make sure this is the only source of water for several weeks.

Be sure not to overdo the Vitamin D treatment as it can cause decalcification resulting in a calcium deficiency.

If you think it is severe enough and it could be fatal, a trip to a vet is a good idea. Tell them she has Metabolic Bone Disease, MBD and needs calcium and Vitamin D. They can inject a small amount under the skin where it will get absorbed quicker.

For the future prevention:
Get a calcium block, cuttle bone, and mineral spool for the cage.
Make sure dark green veggies get added to the diet.
Add 1-2 drops liquid vitamins per ounce of water about 2-3 times per week.

"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

Rhiannonn2626
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Postby Rhiannonn2626 » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:39 pm

Ok thanks Joan. That is why I am so confused.. She has a calcium block in her cage plus she gets the calcivet 2 times a week as well as broccoli and yogurt on the regular. Maybe she has been ignoring the vitamins and going for the plain water iI offer instead? I guess from now on I will be removing the plain water to make her drink the vits whether she likes it or not!
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Postby Joan » Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:03 pm

[quote="Rhiannonn2626"]Pixie is much better this morning! She is active and alert. Still having a bit of trouble moving but not nearly as bad. /quote]

This makes me question MBD ... I've never heard of it improving so fast.
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

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Postby Tamis » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:18 pm

I just noticed that you posted you just got Pixie a week ago.. could it be just malnutrition from being adjusted to the new cage? Just an Idea.. Perhaps she wasnt eating right away while she settled in and this caused her to be weak? I am no expert but that would explain the quick recovery. I hope i read that right.. Keep us posted with your babies progress!! Good Luck!!

edit: reread initial post and notices Pixie has been there a week..

Rhiannonn2626
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Postby Rhiannonn2626 » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:31 pm

no Ive had her over a year... But she is still having trouble walking. her front legs are still a little weak as are her back legs but at least she is getting them in the right positions now. She is doing a lot of sleeping but I have been waking her up regularly to give her yogurt and the vitamin water. She definately prefers the yogurt but only if I put it on my fingers and let her lick it off. I'm still giving her calcivet in the water until I can get to the store and get her the lm vitamins.. Is that ok in a pinch? I gave her the broccoli to but she turned her nose up and took the strawberry dannon instead. I think the wait and see will be the hardest part for me. My job is allowing me to stop off at home to chec on her in the middle of the day too so that maes me feel a bit better
PROUD HOF to Pixie!!!

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Kay
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Postby Kay » Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:07 pm

You can often catch it by the way they sit before you see problems in walking. They sit back farther on their haunches rather than on their back feet as they eat.
k

Rhiannonn2626
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Postby Rhiannonn2626 » Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:11 pm

well i noticed the night before the incident that she wasnt as interested in taking the acorn as usual but I thought she was just dopey cause I woke her up. I guarantee you I will stand up and take notice if she ever starts acting funny again.
PROUD HOF to Pixie!!!

Rhiannonn2626
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Postby Rhiannonn2626 » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:30 am

Is there a way to tell if she has been getting too much d3? Or is it a guessing game. I was wondering because the stuff Ive been using has been much stronger than the three drops per ounce. At this point I'm just so paranoid... She has been eating her yogurt three times a day but it looks to me like shes lost a smidge of weight(she was downright pudgy before) Is there something I can do to fatten her up again and to get her fur glossy again?
PROUD HOF to Pixie!!!

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Postby Joan » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:38 am

[quote="Rhiannonn2626"]Is there a way to tell if she has been getting too much d3?
Too much is as bad as too little and causes MBD symptoms

Or is it a guessing game.
Yes

... She has been eating her yogurt three times a day but it looks to me like shes lost a smidge of weight(she was downright pudgy before) Is there something I can do to fatten her up again and to get her fur glossy again?

As spring approaches, they lose weight that they built up in the fall. She may be headed for a partial molt that occurs in April & May in the wild.
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

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Postby Tamis » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:41 pm

OH oops.. sorry Rhiannon someone names Shannon posted they just got a flyer named pixie a week ago ... Wrong HOF.. Good Luck with your little angel.

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Postby Rhiannonn2626 » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:53 pm

Ok she is doing about the same as yesterday. ? Still having trouble getting around. Her poop is hard and brown and coming in smaller than usual pellets. Is that ok? Usually its kinda mushy. I thought for sure it would be runny cause of all of the yogurt. If she has had too much d3 and I give her the mbd treatment then what happens? Will I have enough time to fix it if it isnt the right thing? She is now interested in pecans again that has to be a good sign. And being down mommys shirt she actually much clingier than usual and squeaks at me when I leave her. Is it bad for me to be carrying her around? Should I leave her in the cage to rest? So many questions.... Thanks to everyone for their help and support!

Janna
PROUD HOF to Pixie!!!

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Postby Joan » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:10 pm

[quote="Rhiannonn2626"].. If she has had too much d3 and I give her the mbd treatment then what happens?

MBD symptoms increase. Read this section: http://www.nfsa.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=935

Will I have enough time to fix it if it isnt the right thing?

Certainly, they heal quickly.

Is it bad for me to be carrying her around?

No, let her sleep in your shirt as much as she wants.
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

Rhiannonn2626
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Postby Rhiannonn2626 » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:53 am

Pixie is about the same this morning but I have high hopes for her as she is already back to bossing me around. Her back legs are still weak the front ones have improved though and she is consuming copious amounts of yogurt.
PROUD HOF to Pixie!!!

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lynn
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Postby lynn » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:28 am

So glad Pixie's perking up!
I would question a diagnosis of MBD because the symptoms came on very suddenly. Is it possible that she had a digestive problem, such as eating something she shouldn't have? Or, could she have gotten really dehydrated? When you describe her weakness, small & hard stools, and general lethargy, I think more along the lines of illness or injury. As a rehabber, I have occasionally received an animal from well-meaning people who don't know how to care for a squirrel. It takes a really long time to treat MBD, and there may be permanent skeletal damage. Balancing Calcium/D3 intake and giving lots of good foods is never a bad idea, whether or not this episode has truly been MBD.

Rhiannonn2626
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Postby Rhiannonn2626 » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:37 pm

sorry it took so long for an update...things have been chaos around here. Pixie is 100% recovered. If anything my little rat is into more trouble than ever before. She got disgusted with the travel cage I had her in and decided about a week ago that she was going to put herself back in the big cage. Since this required her to climb 2 flights of stairs(which she did successfully and with more speed than I thought possible) I figured it would be ok for her to stay there. After that she improved very quickly. Funny thing though, now when I get out the yogurt she starts acting all gimpy again...is my flyer trying to train me?
PROUD HOF to Pixie!!!


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