WARNING

For other than life threatening medical situations with your flyer.

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WARNING

Postby Joan » Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:37 pm

The two sisters (the Dawns) I adopted out to Tim were both dead within a week. They were 8 weeks old. His mom (a vet) thinks it is related to the birds he has. I don't know yet if they were placed in a used bird cage and/or nestbox that wasn't disinfected.
Their brother was adopted by Tom and is doing well. Tom also thought it might be related to the birds. Maybe Tom will post his thoughts here.
I wanted to find out others experiences with birds and baby flyers and to alert everyone to a potential problem.
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

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Postby hauk » Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:13 pm

I would bet that the babies were placed in a cage that was not disinfected properly. It is very hard to disinfect a cage that has had other critters in it. Birds are very often the cause of illness. I personally would never put a flyer or any other small animal in a cage that was used by a bird. Thor is doing very well and of course he was housed in a brand new cage and I still clean it every day. I'm sorry to hear that the two flyers died and at the risk of irritating someone I would not be in a hurry to provide any more babies to that household untill the problem is fixed. Tom

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Postby Jme » Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:31 pm

oh no! I have button quail in the bottom of the cage my flyer will be in. They don't fly or perch so I put them in there not having to worry about them pooping every where. What should I do? I will have my flyer in the same room as my quail will this be a problem? I hatched all the quail myself, they are all very healthy. Now I am worried.
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Postby Jme » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:42 pm

I don't know of any diseases that quail can get, espeacially button quail. They are about the most non wild quail you can get. I know that parrots and stuff like that can give and get diseases to and from people. I just don't know if or how I should go about disinfecting the cage for my flyer.
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Re: Button Quail

Postby den942 » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:55 pm

I know of a woman that had a button quail in the bottom of a flyer cage.
There was no apparent problem but I don't know about long term.
This is no endorsement to put birds and flyers together as I do not
recommend it. Birds can carry many things you don't want to catch
with no side effects on the birds...
A major factor may have been the age of the flyers and their not fully
developed immune system...

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Postby Beverly » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:54 pm

:~{ So sorry to hear of the loss of the girls, Joan! I would not have thought (unless the birds themselves were sick) that there would have been such a problem. After all, in the natural setting, momma flyers often take over bluebird nestboxes, and woodpecker tree holes. sigh. All I can say is, it's a sad thing to have happened ...
{D {D {D Lots of Acorns to you, from
Beverly and the Denizens of
The Den Drey at Phantom Farm
What the world needs now are MORE SQUIRRELS! Then there would not be so many NUTS running around loose!

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Re: Button Quail

Postby Joan » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:01 pm

[quote="den942"]... A major factor may have been the age of the flyers and their not fully developed immune system.

That was a thought of mine too.
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

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Postby Jme » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:07 pm

so should I be worried? How do I disinfect the cage? Will I even need to do anything more than scrubbing it down?
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Postby Moonsong » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:08 pm

I know that you can catch colds from birds and vice versus. My parakeet used to get sick the same time I would. We'd both be sneezing. I gave him 2 drops of Triamenic (sp?) and he'd get better quicker than I would.

But I imagine they can pass germs to others as well.
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Postby hauk » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:59 pm

JME: I always use a water and bleach solution,I have found that just scrubbing does not do it all,I take the cage outside and first wash it as good as I can with a dish detergent like dawn and rinse well,Then I mix 1 part bleach with 50 parts water and I use a small pressure sprayer to ensure that the solution gets into every part of the cage,Then I leave it to dry, I also use a little bit of Lysol from time to time,Of course be sure to take the baby out of the cage untill it is dry. Tom

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Postby Kay » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:27 am

I also try to air/sunshine dry for several days. I have them lined up on my deck after rehab season.
kay

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Postby Moca » Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:12 am

hauk wrote:JME: I always use a water and bleach solution,. Tom


Yes,for serious cleaning this works. Follow up with hydrogin peroxide and water and then rinse well.
I would think the BQuail would be safe.
Nugget gets to be in the same room with my tame java sparrow,byt has never gotton to touch his cage or come in contact with his scat,as he's placed in the closet when Nugget comes out at night.
Protect wildlife,keep ye cat indoors.
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:coffee: Moca

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Postby Deb » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:51 pm

OMG! A new worry! We were putting my son, Gabe's, cockatiel in the M&Ms flight cage during the day while he was stranded here during Katrina. Oz is a very young bird and healthy, and we've not seen any problems with the furballs. But I'm always raising wild baby birds of all types! Just in this year since getting Munch & Molly I've had a robin, woodduck, cedar waxwing, and a dove. Now I'm terrified to take in the next baby bird.

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Postby Joan » Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:46 pm

Remember the age of these pups ... 8 weeks. I think that is a major factor.
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

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Avian Chlamydiosis

Postby Joan » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:38 pm

I spoke with a vet who is a specialist in Avian medicine. She said that Avian Chlamydiosis was a possibility, but she felt the cause of the pups' deaths was more likely husbandry on the part of the HOFs.
I offered to pay for a necropsy and if it was inconclusive, send the remains to the University of Florida. I also expressed my concerns about a newborn in the house hold if it was related to the birds. I've never heard back one word from Tim.
Although, the vet didn't think the birds were involved (we'll never know because a necropsy wasn't done), I'm including some information on Avian Chlamydiosis for all you bird owners:



"Psittacosis" is caused by an organism called Chlamydophila psittaci, formerly known as Chlamydia psittaci. This organism has characteristics of both bacteria and viruses. The disease in humans is called psittacosis, and the same term is commonly used to refer to the disease in parrots. A more exact term for the avian disease is "Avian Chlamydiosis." It is sometimes also called parrot fever. C. psittaci can infect other mammals, in addition to humans.
Birds can be carriers of C. psittaci without showing any signs. Asymptomatic infections are common and birds may shed the organism for several months without exhibiting clinical disease. Persistent infections in carrier birds may be latent for years before a stressful episode leads to the emergence of clinical signs and shedding of the organism.
The disease can be transmitted via nasal discharge as well as feces, either by inhalation or ingestion.
C. psittaci is resistant to drying so can survive for a long time in the environment and readily becomes airborne in dust particles. Shedding of C. psittaci by infected birds (including asympotmatic birds) increases in times of stress (shipping, overcrowding, environmental stress, presence of other disesases, breeding, etc.). Infection is acquired by inhaling dried secretions from infected birds. The incubation period is 5 to 19 days. Although all birds are susceptible, pet birds (parrots, parakeets, macaws, and cockatiels) and poultry (turkeys and ducks) are most frequently involved in transmission to humans. Immunocompromised, the elderly, and young mammals are at increased risk of serious disease and complications.
If birds are kept as pets, clean the cage often so that fecal material does not accumulate, dry up and become airborne. When clinical signs occur in birds, they include yellow-to-greenish or watery gray droppings, weight loss, dehydration, lethargy, and ruffled feathers. Keratoconjunctivitis, rhinitis, sinusitis, dyspnea and, occasionally, CNS signs may also be seen. None of the aforementioned signs are pathognomonic, making a diagnosis of chlamydiosis somewhat difficult.
To aid the clinician in diagnosis, various diagnostic tests are available, each with their own benefits and drawbacks.



http://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/ ... hlamid.htm
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

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Postby Deb » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:44 pm

About 15 years ago we lost a pekingnese who was 11 years old from a very sudden, severe respiratory infection. She died before antibiotics even had a chance to work. Since the dog lived in the house, and the weather was cold and she almost never went out I didn't see how she had "caught something". After questioning us about the huge flocks of blackbirds that often came to hunt for insects in the unraked leaf cover in our backyard, he wanted to do a necropsy. Sure enough, it was psittacosis. I was scared to death because my kids played back there. This has become a fairly common problem in this area. We have to keep the leaves raked and no longer wait for all of them to fall off. And the blackbirds are strongly discouraged from making their living on our lawn.

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Postby Joan » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:07 pm

I'm still not convinced it wasn't psittacosis. The pups were weaned; so that likely rules out aspiration pneumonia. They died within 2 days of each other and were in an area with birds. They had immature immune systems and were therefore susceptible.
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

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Postby Guest » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:26 am

Joan, I am so sorry to hear about the loss of the pups. Unfortuneately situations like this are our best sources of information on caring for our pets. You've just given me another warning to pass on to potential adoptive parents.
My heart goes out to you and Tim.

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Postby Joan » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:31 am

That's exactly what I hoped to do. I just wish I had a definitive answer through necropsy. I think I'd warn new HOFs to keep small pups away from birds until older ... just don't know how old. :( And definitely clean thoroughly anything that a bird has used.
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

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Postby Avalon » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:23 pm

So very sorry to hear about the loss of the flyers. I have 11 birds and 8 flyers. All the birds are in cages of their oIwn. My 8 flyers are housed in two separate cages.

On the bird forum they mention using apple cider vinegar for cleaning the cages. That's for a weekly cleaning.

Chemicals can be very toxic to the birds. Even cooking in Teflon cookware should not be done around the birds.
We are each of us angels with only one wing, and we can only fly by embracing one another.
- Lucretius.

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Postby Jme » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:35 pm

Now I am worried again! I will have mynew baby in my room where I also have some button quail. Will this be an issue?
Jme

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Postby Moca » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:28 pm

Jme wrote:Now I am worried again! I will have mynew baby in my room where I also have some button quail. Will this be an issue?
Jme


If your really worried,take the quail to an avian Vet for testing.
Protect wildlife,keep ye cat indoors.

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:coffee: Moca


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