Helen's Little Critters Warning

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Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby Joan » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:45 am

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7994&p=65856#p65856
Anita Rae wrote:Tammy I wish you had called me. I would have posted here earlier.

I don’t have time to beat around the bush and play nice so I will make this real simple. HLC is a MILL. Nothing more and nothing less. A mill.

Mills are wrong. It doesn’t make any difference what kind; Puppy, hamster, exotic. Mills are wrong. Period.

I’m sure that Vanette is a very nice person. She is paid to be nice. We see that a lot in mill breeders. They are so helpful and just love to tell you that they are the experts and not doing anything wrong. But that doesn’t change the fact that they are mill breeders.

No, decent breeders do not sell underage animals. And they don’t self neuter. And they allow you to see their breeders. I would never purchase an animal from anyone who didn’t allow me to see the breeding facility.

One more time, Vanette Walker is a mill breeder. Plain and simple.
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby nutmeg6389 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:22 pm

I don't think this is fair... I am getting my little boy from her in a few weeks, and I have heard nothing but good things about her Flyers...

For those of us that don't live near breeders, and want the chance to own a SFS, this is sort-of a last resort. I have spoken to her on the phone and she seems to genuinely care about her animals and their well being. If she was a mill, would she hand feed all of her babies? I certainly don't think so... I would rather have her ship me a baby than to buy an older Flyer that some idiot caught in the wild and sold as a "tame" pet.

I have done enough research to know that if I had to buy a baby from out of state, I'd buy from her before anywhere else. I have also read that people HAVE been to her facility and think it is actually very decent. She has several people that work for her and play with the babies and the adults daily. Mill breeders DON'T SPEND TIME WITH THEIR ANIMALS! Nor do they care about their well being, their happiness, or their health!

Is this a business? Yes. But I don't believe she is a mill... I think there is a very big difference between a business and a mill...
I think there are much bigger issues with other breeders than with Venette... If she didn't have a good reputation, I wouldn't buy from her period. Simple as that. She gives you lots of information, a whole nursery, and tons of stuff to go with her babies. If she was a MILL she would ship them by themselves in a cereal box. For someone to try and sabotage her reputation just because she actually ships babies to people who really want them, is just plain rude and obviously un-educated about the subject...

Also, for those who say she sells her babies too soon, how about you hobby breeders? Do you separate your babies from their mothers at 6 or 7 weeks? It's the same thing... and FURTHERMORE, people who breed and raise ferrets neuter/spay and de-scent them on their own as well... Sugar glider neutering is pretty non-invasive compared to other things people do to animals. My sugar glider was neutered by my vet in about 5 minutes flat, had no stiches, and had no issues. If this is whole topic is concerning sugar gliders, post it somewhere else. I think sugar glider people would rather buy from Venette than PPP... ask any of them.

This whole post is very biased and very unfair. The next time you buy a pair of tennis shoes you'd better think twice... Some 8 year old in China slaved long and hard over those pair of Nikes... Also, don't buy another double cheeseburger the next time you roll into McDonalds. Some cow got beefed up on injection to keep them big enough to produce a lot of meat.

...My point, there's much bigger issues to worry about in this world. Venette just happens to make a business out of her breeding, and lucky for me or else I wouldn't be able to have a SFS....
"It doesn't matter how much you know until you show how much you care." - Quote from my dad.

-Megan

Judy C.

Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby Judy C. » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:54 pm

nutmeg6389 wrote:I don't think this is fair...and I have heard nothing but good things about her Flyers...

For those of us that don't live near breeders, and want the chance to own a SFS, this is sort-of a last resort. I have spoken to her on the phone and she seems to genuinely care about her animals and their well being. If she was a mill, would she hand feed all of her babies? I certainly don't think so... I would rather have her ship me a baby than to buy an older Flyer that some idiot caught in the wild and sold as a "tame" pet.


I have heard both good and bad. You are right - she is a 'last resort' for some people that don't live close to a hobby breeder. As for those who trap and sell wild flyers as pets, they are the lowest of the low.

.....Is this a business? Yes. But I don't believe she is a mill... I think there is a very big difference between a business and a mill...
For someone to try and sabotage her reputation just because she actually ships babies to people who really want them, is just plain rude and obviously un-educated about the subject...


The problem is not whether or not she ships flyers - it is the age at which they are shipped. I do not ship my babies for several reasons - mainly because it would be a 2 to 3 hour trip one way to the closest airport. I would have to charge a whole lot more if I had to make that trip. I also rehab wildlife and have many babies to feed, and there is no way I can be away from them for that long of a time.

Also, for those who say she sells her babies too soon, how about you hobby breeders? Do you separate your babies from their mothers at 6 or 7 weeks? It's the same thing...


No, it is definately NOT the same thing. There is a huge difference in taking the babies at 4 or 5 weeks, hand feeding and taming them, socializing them and introducing them to solid foods as opposed to taking them, putting them in a shipping crate, and sending them to a new owner at 6 weeks.

and FURTHERMORE, people who breed and raise ferrets neuter/spay and de-scent them on their own as well... Sugar glider neutering is pretty non-invasive compared to other things people do to animals. My sugar glider was neutered by my vet in about 5 minutes flat, had no stiches, and had no issues.


I can only think of 2 reasons for someone to neuter an animal themselves - no, three. One: they don't care about the animals and don't care whether or not they cause the animal severe pain. Two: they are too cheap to spend the money to have a vet perform the operation, or Three: they are so unbelievably stupid that they don't realize that what they are doing is cruel and inhumane.
Also, flyers have a very real problem with ripping out stitches, so neutering is very dangerous for them - there are way too many instances of flyers dieing from being neutered.

This whole post is very biased and very unfair. The next time you buy a pair of tennis shoes you'd better think twice... Some 8 year old in China slaved long and hard over those pair of Nikes... Also, don't buy another double cheeseburger the next time you roll into McDonalds. Some cow got beefed up on injection to keep them big enough to produce a lot of meat.


Let's not compare apples to oranges. There is a vast difference in the children of China and fat cattle, compared to the raising and selling of flying squirrels.

...My point, there's much bigger issues to worry about in this world. Venette just happens to make a business out of her breeding, and lucky for me or else I wouldn't be able to have a SFS....


Yes, there ARE bigger issues to worry about. But this discussion happens to be about the raising, selling, and shipping of flying squirrels. Venette HAS made a business of breeding animals, and so she must make a profit from doing it - that has to be her main focus. Hobby breeders don't expect to make a profit from their babies. In fact, they know that they won't even break even! We do it for the love of flyers, not money.

I am glad you are getting your flyer, and I truly wish you luck with him. Many people have bought from her and been very satisfied, and I hope you are one of them. But it is still a fact that many people have NOT had a very good experience. We hold the opinion we have of commercial breeders because of experience and extensive research we have done, not from any feelings we have against them personally.

Judy C.

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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby nutmeg6389 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:26 am

I know the topic has been discussed before, (I've read plenty on it in the original post) but I find it a little unfair for this to be announced on the top of this page... I think people are all entitled to their own opinion on the subject, and if they want to "risk" buying from HLC, then that is of their own accord, but to sway people (especially for people who ARE interested in SFS, and are new to the NFSA) against her entirely is completely inappropriate and unnecessary. [-X

It's like saying if you ever want a puppy, don't buy it from the pet store... Ya know? If you fall in love with a puppy from the store, then go for it. Maybe it'll be better in your hands than someone else's... Just my opinion. (And for the record, I am very pro-adoption! :) )
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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby toiveajattelu » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:56 pm

I do find it odd that this particular comment has been singled out and created into a new post called "Helen's Little Critters Warning," when the comment applies to mills in general and the original post contains a medley of views. The comment is not a "warning;" it is a condemnation of Helen's Little Critters and of mills more generally. I'm perfectly comfortable with the view expressed, but when the Site Admin grants it its own title and pastes it into its own post in the "For Sale" section, it begins to smack somewhat of vendetta.

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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby nutmeg6389 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:40 pm

Well said! ... Exactly the point I was trying to make, you just used better words, lol.
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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby Joan » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:51 pm

I posted it in an area where "newbies" look. Otherwise it would get lost in time. I get many requests for information on commerial "breeders". The most frequest is for Helen's Little Critters. I have several personal account reports. It is a warning to the buyer. Do as you wish, purchase from whom you wish. I do not know Venette, but I am aware of what feedback I have received. I will contnue to do what I feel is best for flyers. That is my concern. You are free to form your own opinions.
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby nutmeg6389 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:04 pm

Yeah but here I think you used your "authority" here as a moderator to sabotage someone else's reputation and business... And that's not right. I can start any old website and say to stay away from NFSA, I wouldn't, but it's just the point that because you have moderator access to a board doesn't mean you need to post a big flying banner to stay away from someone you have formed an opinion on.
"It doesn't matter how much you know until you show how much you care." - Quote from my dad.

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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby Judy C. » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:53 am

Nutmeg, this isn't exactly 'Joan's" opinion. It is the result of many complaints about Venette. Believe me, we get feedback on all breeders, commercial and hobby both. Although Venette is not the worst we hear about, her bad reviews far, far outweigh the good ones.

NFSA is here to help flyers, and the people that are owned by them, in every way we can. We want their experiences with flyers as good as they possibly can. Recommending which breeders are good or bad is the only way we can do that.

We give the reviews we have gotten, bad or good, to help people make an informed decision about who to buy from or not.

Judy C.

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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby flyer_1 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:39 pm

This is really goofed up, Vennete Walker is a very nice lady, but she isn't paid to be that way she will answer questions from anyone for as long as they need her to and wouldn't even think about making you stop unless she has to much work to do....OK she isn't Gandi, but if truth be known Gandi loved animals as much as people and there lives at the same level which is wrong. Don't try to tell me she's a mill a mill is not a bad word the word mill was given to a large dog farm by animal wright's activists, it's how the animals at the "mill" are cared for, she has to make money and so must deal in bulk but do not misunderstand that and tell us she's bad.

I sort of agree with Judy in the fact I have heard good and bad things about her. I have however heard nothing at all bad about the flyers she sells, that said, the sugar gliders she sells may be too young but when I was researching getting a glider nobody I talked to was selling them any older than she doe's and they too did the fixing.

Neutering animals yourself MAY not be legal but I bet you anything thing she's way better at it than a vet, do to how many she neuters as to how many a the vet would is considerable so I very much believe that Vennete is better than at least most vet's. As for not thinking that any flyers or gliders should be fixed it's not anyone's call to make, including mine. For the record I don't like neutering but the people who are purchasing the animal very well may not feel the same way and in allot of cases don't, allot of people won't purchase unless they have that option, besides she probably would prefer not to but in order to make money she must otherwise they will just bring their business somewhere else. Maybe it's not the best for the animal that she give's that choice but you must understand that she doe's care about the animals she sells and doe's do the best she can to make sure that the procedure goes well, and like I said she must do this to make a living. There is a difference between a big business and a mill, so plain and simple Vennete Walker is not a mill.


PS, I don't want to sound rough but some strong OPINIONS have been voiced about her being a mill and do and will remain faithful to one of the nicest women I have ever known, and to a lady who cares about her animals. I encourage all of you who are considering getting a flyer Vennete is a great choice don't allow yourself to be misinformed about her....no offense.
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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby flyer_1 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:27 am

I forgot a point, everything I said still goes but the main reason Vennete does the neutering herself is because of how many flyers and gliders she deals with she simply can't afford it, she told me this herself....by the way the vet doesn't use pain killers.


Nutmeg made a good point, she lost me with the kid and the pair of nikes but otherwise she's right on. I have heard nothing about flyers having problems because she shipped them too young, mine came to me in great health and was ready to be on his own when I got him and is doing great, as far as I'm concerned she's doing a great work. If the people making these accusations against her saw her place and talked to her they would know better, this is defamation of character.

The women doe's not deserve this, she's not getting rich of this, how many mills do you know that would go out to the woods and bring back tree limbs for them making sure to only go to woods not sprayed with bad chemicals and how may mills do you know that sift the shavings of the bedding for their cages to make sure they get the best quality, now really and you call that a mill, no I'm afraid you intell is a little off get you facts straight and than accuse someone but don't do it when you don't know what your talking about, Antia roe.
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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby pnerissa » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:36 am

I know I am about sick of this thread.

I DID order a baby from HLC. She WAS shipped too young and was NOT in the best of health once she arrived. It took a good deal of effort on my part over several weeks to turn her into the healthy baby she is now. My experiences with HLC leading up to [img]finally[/img] getting a baby shipped almost a month late were very nerve-wracking and for those reasons alone I will never buy another animal from HLC. I have not physically been in her establishment but just from my conversations with her on the phone, in MY OPINION, anyone that is raising the number of animals that she claims to be IS running a mill.

As for neutering, if she isn't a licensed veterinarian then she's not LEGALLY able to do so. Therefore if she is indeed neutering these animals she is doing so ILLEGALLY.

So take it or leave it. Make your own decisions whether or not you want to buy or not buy from her.

No offense, but stop beating the dead horse and lock the thread.

Beverly

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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby flyer_1 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:21 pm

I didn't start the thread but I felt very strongly about this subject, I'm sorry if you had a bad experience with her but the number of animals she has doe's NOT make her a mill, I'm so tired of people calling her a mill...Anyone who breeds and buys in bulk is going to be called a mill by the animal nut jobs out there, I don't think that's you Bev, :) I didn't know that your baby wasn't in good shape when you got him but from what I've heard that's hardly the way she doe's things so I'm surprised to hear that but, that sort of thing can happen, I don't think it wouldn't again.

PS, There's no reason to putt a lock on a thread because you don't like it, if your tired of it don't look at it and don't go to it, but unless someone else has some insight I think this is about the last anyone will be on here, I've said about all I can say and I think everyone else has too :)
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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby nutmeg6389 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:26 pm

Ahh the politics in pet owning. :) Who knew?

I'll stick with TSB, it's sooo fun there! I haven't seen one nasty post about ANY breeder yet.
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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby flyer_1 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:11 pm

Sure if you can handle all the language :) No everyone's nice here but someone who's not on here much decided to stir the waters :D
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Re: Helen's Little Critters Warning

Postby Ohatsie » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:21 am

Im actually glad I caught this.
It was starting to seem like HLC was the only option for me, but after reading this Im going to try way harder to find a Hobby breeder in the New York / Northeast / Tristate area.

I understand that among the bad reviews there are plenty of good, but I take pet owner ship VERY seriously, and I dont even want to take a chance that Im supporting a bad buisness if I dont have to.

BTW I think this thread is perfectly reasonable, It gives someone like me (a newbie) another take on Helen's, and lots of different oppinions are pivotal in finding the right pet and breeder. Thanks Joan! :multi:
Colin


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