Need Help with a 3 Day Old Pinky

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Judy C.

Need Help with a 3 Day Old Pinky

Postby Judy C. » Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:36 am

Last Friday, one of the females in the Wild Bunch cage had pups. I couldn't see how many, but they were healthy looking and active. When I checked them Sunday night fire ants had gotten in the nest box and killed two of them. The momma had moved the other one to a different box, and everything seemed fine - the pup was healthy and active. Same this morning. This evening, when I fed, the momma was in one corner of the box, and she had shoved the baby to the opposite corner. I grabbed him up and brought him inside. He was very cold and still, and dehydrated - I thought sure he was dead. I was fixing to wrap him up to bury him, when I felt a very slight bit of movement. Right now he's nice and warm in the 'nursery cage', and I have gotten a few drops of pedialite down him. He's fairly active, all things considered. He weighs 5 grams, and looks like he has 'granny fingers' all over!

How much do I feed him at a time? I know to go drop by drop - I just don't know when to quit! I have never had to care for one this young before, and I'm scared to death that I'll do something wrong! When can I expect him to suck, instead of giving him drops? And what size nipple do I use? How 'plump' are they usually? I know they have a lot of excess skin.

Any advise will surely be appreciated, or to put it another way......HELP!!

Judy

Judy C.

Postby Judy C. » Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:57 am

Oh yes, I forgot to say that he has some fire ant bites on him, too. Not covered, like the little grey I got in, but at least 3 or 4 - it's hard to tell this early - takes fire ant bites a while to show up.

Judy

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Postby katiedid » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:03 am

Oh Judy...you are such an angel to any baby in need! :smt049 I don't know what to tell you except I do remeber reading this post awhile back that Joan answered:

http://www.nfsa.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1816

Although, I'm pretty darn sure you already know all of that.

Other than that, I'd call Laurie...and I don't care what time it is...it's a baby flyer we're talking about. :smt049
~Katie~
Kya :queen:, TC :smt050, Van :smt049 & Squirrelly :wings: ~ Southern Flyers
Aesop :jester:, Ambraesia, Pepper & Abby :smt057 ~ Sugar Gliders
In loving memory of my little King boy :king: and Sweet Valor

Judy C.

Postby Judy C. » Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:33 am

Here are some photos of him. That's a penny in the picture with him.

http://community.webshots.com/user/muffinsquirrel

The album is 'Three Day Old Pinky'

Judy

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Postby Jme » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:32 am

Oh my gosh he is so small! Do you have any other babies that young? The only other option than you feeding him is to get a foster mom. I have had it work with mice, and you have to be very caregul with them so they don't, um, ingest their babies.
GOOD LUCK!
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Re: Need Help with a 3 Day Old Pinky

Postby Joan » Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:18 am

[quote="Judy C."] ... How much do I feed him at a time? I know to go drop by drop - I just don't know when to quit!

I think he will quit when he's had enough.

Do you have a nursing mom? Leah used Ivy to wet nurse a litter for her. She got her older pups to urinate on the foster pup, pulled the older litter and introduced the new pups.

When she didn't have a nursing mom, she fed with a pediatric catheter ... drop by drop as you're doing.

One thing about the fire ant bites ... if a pimple developes, drain it as it contains the fire ant poison which will continue to be released.

Also, the foster rat idea has worked for some if introduced in the same way to a lactating mother. The introduction is important as pups have also been killed.
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

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Postby Laurie » Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:28 am

I HOPE I was coherent last night when Darra called for advice! I was so sleepy that I have no idea even what time it was!

Okay... I just saw the photos. First of all... most important.....Plan on this baby not making it. Do your best but don't get your hopes up (Very hard, and with authority I can say, I know how hard that is). This baby is WAY too young. So now that we have "our" heads on straight....

You can see her stomach. I would fill it 3/4 of the way full each feeding, no more. Not enough is better than too much. It should turn from pink to milk white. Now watch the tummy - when it's almost empty, do over. I'm guessing this will be 2 hours to 2.5 hours.

I just got off the phone w/Darra and she said you gave Pedialite last night. You are on Esbilac now, right? In the absense of a feeding tube, I would use a standard eye-dropper and take it very slow. Expect most of it to run everywhere but in her mouth.

Heating pad under a towel and baby nestled in cotton balls or fur, right? I'm guessing you already knew all of that.

Get your alarm clock out, you are going to be tired. I'll be looking here for an update soon. Thankxs for the pics - they say more than we can describe! Hope she's still doing okay!
Laurie
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Judy C.

Postby Judy C. » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:17 pm

Just a quick update - he's still alive, but not looking too great. I talked to Leah today (thanks so much, Leah) and will probably try pulling my pups that are now 3 weeks old, and putting him with the momma. With any luck at all, she will accept him. More later - right now I need some sleep!

Judy

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Postby gwsgrand » Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:15 pm

Judy good luck and I do hope you can get a mother to take that baby. It is so hard to hand raise one that size. I lost all of mine and it was such a sad time. But some are just fighters and can make you very proud. We will be thinking of you and thanks for the pictures.
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Postby Jme » Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:23 pm

Ya good luck Judy!
Jme

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Postby Pam » Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:37 pm

Sending prayers your way Judy, hope all goes well.
Pam, Abbey and Binky ..PeeWee..4 very happy souls

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Postby Laurie » Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:41 pm

Oh thank goodness you got to speak w/Leah - she is the expert - whew - good luck in getting her to be a wet nurse!
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Postby Kay » Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:13 pm

He needs to get at least 0.25 - 0.3 cc's every 3 hrs. I'd start with pedialyte and gradually add formula powder to it. The next 12 hrs should tell the tale. Good luck
kay

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Postby Guest » Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:28 pm

(This is Leah - I somehow got logged out.)

You hang in there, Judy - I know whichever way you decide to go, you can handle it. The best option, of course, for a pup that tiny is getting it with a nursing mama, but I've also successfully hand-raised 4 that were smaller than your little one (they were 4 grams each) and one other that weighed 5 grams. It can be done. You have an additional challenge with those darned fire ant bites - no way to know how much that is affecting the baby.

Apart from the ones I hand-raised, I was able to foster two more groups with a mama who was nursing 4-week-old pups of her own. FYI (for others' sake - because you and I talked about it!), the fostering method that worked for me: I took the birth pups out of the nestbox, stimulated them to urinate on a cotton ball, dabbed that urine soaked cotton ball on the newborn orphan pups - on their heads, backs, and bellies - and laid them right into the cotton nest where the birth pups had been sleeping. Then took the nestbox back to the mama, who made a beeline to get inside (I had the roof cocked up slightly so I could watch) and I stood there holding my breath ready to grab those tiny babies if the mama showed any signs of aggression towards them. She immediately started licking them, cleaning them up, and turning to look at me, and back to licking the orphans, back and forth...I could almost hear her saying to herself, Why are my babies so tiny again, and why are they so dirty???.....good ol' Ivy - what a squirrel! She nursed two groups of babies besides her own and truly helped get me through last year's four hurricanes.

If you can pull a switcheroo on your nursing mama, this little newborn can get mother's milk which is its very best chance - and those 3-week old babies will be a snap for you to finish hand-raising. Let me know if you need anything, you have my work number - and I'm ALWAYS there....(I keep threatening to move a bed in there and be done with it.)

Judy C.

Postby Judy C. » Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:20 am

Well, he has a name now - Feather. Cause if he makes it, he will definately be the Featherweight Champion of the World!

He's still alive. I am going to try to raise him myself rather than put him with the momma. I'm worried about how she might react to the fire ant bites. By the way, I started counting them this afternoon, and gave up and quit counting when I reached 20. I don't see how he can possibly make it with that much poision in his tiny system. But then again, I don't see how he's made it this far! Every time I reach in to get him I expect him to be dead. He's definately a fighter. Oh yes - he has finally started sucking, which makes it easier on me, and shows that he is really trying. and he has gained a gram!!!! But he is not yet out of the woods, and I will be the most surprised of all if he actually makes it.

Keep your fingers crossed for Feather!!

Judy

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Postby Pam » Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:12 am

Our prayers are definetly out there for your little feather. we keep praying for the both of you..
Pam, Abbey and Binky ..PeeWee..4 very happy souls

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Postby Kay » Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:10 pm

You're doing a great job and a gram in a baby flyer is like a pound on a human baby.

hugs,
kay

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Postby katiedid » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:42 pm

Lots of prayers for you and Feather! :smt049
~Katie~
Kya :queen:, TC :smt050, Van :smt049 & Squirrelly :wings: ~ Southern Flyers
Aesop :jester:, Ambraesia, Pepper & Abby :smt057 ~ Sugar Gliders
In loving memory of my little King boy :king: and Sweet Valor

Judy C.

Postby Judy C. » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:00 pm

Feather is still alive, and still fighting. He is not doing as well as I had hoped - he has lost some weight and has some stomach problems. The milk is not emptying from his tummy. I'm giving him yogurt and he is back on pedialite. He is still peeing and pooping OK, which is good. His ant bites look really bad now - he is so thin, and the bites are so huge compared to his size. Although I have tried, I have not been able to pop any of the bites - they are big, but very flat, and with so much loose skin, the bites just roll away when you try to pop them. I am afraid that his energy is going to fight the infection from the bites rather than to gaining weight and getting better. But as long as he keeps fighting, so will I.

Judy

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Postby Joan » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:48 am

[quote="Judy C."]... But as long as he keeps fighting, so will I.

Judy, I'd suggesting pulling the older pups and letting the mama take him. She'll give him the best of food and clean his wounds up.
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

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Postby Kay » Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:54 am

Do you have nutridrops you can put inside his mouth. It absorbs through the gums, etc. and gives them a boost. Maybe at morning and night only.
Keep trying, but it sounds bad. Bless your heart for the effort.
kay

Judy C.

Postby Judy C. » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:33 pm

Feather died in my hand this morning at 5:00, as I was getting ready to feed him. It was as if his heart and body just gave out - he was rooting around and squirming everywhere, and then he just put his head down and died. I think he was just tired of fighting, and his little heart just quit. It was very peaceful - no struggle or gasping or anything - just one minute he was there, and the next,he wasn't. He was a courageous little flyer...a true fighter. He's one that I will never forger.

Thank you all for your prayers and help and juxt "being there". It really meant a lot to me.

Judy and Feather

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Postby Joan » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:12 pm

So sorry Judy. Feather is taking his place with all his furball buddies over the Rainbow Bridge.
"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

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Postby gwsgrand » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:59 pm

Judy I am so sorry my heart goes out to you . Both of you were fighters and some one more powerful upstairs wanted him . I know he is at peace now and happy playing with others of his kind. True some can touch us so much more than others and your so right you will not ever forget Feather. I know I will never forget Baby either. Know that we send our love to you.
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Postby Leah » Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:18 pm

I'm so sorry, Judy - God bless you for trying so hard. There's just no way to know how big an extra battle he was having due to that poison in his system. Raising one that tiny is not an easy thing to accomplish even under the best of circumstances. 20-plus fire ant bites on something the size of a lima bean is very serious. You certainly did the best you possibly could and more than most people would attempt. I know how scared you were to even pick him up because of his size, but you did it. Believe it or not, this experience will make you more confident if (when) the time ever comes for you to step up again to help a little guy through.

:(

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Postby Pam » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:49 pm

I am so sorry Judy, you gave little feather your heart , he is with all the little ones at rainbow bridge, away from all his pain, i know your heart is aching, and we are sending our love your way..
Pam, Abbey and Binky ..PeeWee..4 very happy souls

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Postby Kay » Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:38 pm

Hugs, Judy. It's hard to stay philosophical when you lose babies. You did the best.
kay

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Postby katiedid » Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:36 pm

Judy, I am so sorry. He was definitely a fighter, as were you. :smt049
~Katie~
Kya :queen:, TC :smt050, Van :smt049 & Squirrelly :wings: ~ Southern Flyers
Aesop :jester:, Ambraesia, Pepper & Abby :smt057 ~ Sugar Gliders
In loving memory of my little King boy :king: and Sweet Valor

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Postby John » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:22 pm

Judy, So sorry that the pup didn't make it. I just lost one not too many days ago and it is a burden... you try so hard to get them thru but sometimes its just not in the cards.....God bless

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Postby The Rock's Laura » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:17 pm

So sad. You did your best. So sad.
:love7: I was joyfully owned by
6 1/2 yr old
ROCKIE, a gift in my life.
Rest in Peace my baby boy 9/4/2002 - 5/24/2009
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Postby Moca » Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:23 am

The Rock's Laura wrote:So sad. You did your best. So sad.


So true. We had a saying at the wildlife shelter i worked at and it was:"The more fur the baby has,the better chance you have of raising it."
But you gave it your best shot and that's what counts.
Protect wildlife,keep ye cat indoors.
www.abcbirds.org
:coffee: Moca


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